Cat: Welcome to The Broad Beta Podcast. My name is Cat, and I am co-hosting today with Broad Beta co-founder Jeannie Wall. Our guest on this episode is Steph Abegg.

We are so excited to have her. Steph has become well-known in the alpine climbing world for her detailed trip reports and route overlays on high-quality photos of multi-pitch rock climbs. Steph was raised in a family of climbers, and she and her sister Jenny have both emerged as notable women in the climbing world.

In this episode, Steph tells us about how she began sharing trip reports, how a major injury almost sidelined her for good, and much more. So without further ado, let's welcome Steph Abegg.

Steph: I'll start way back in 1975 when my parents met. My parents met in 1975 on a trail actually, and they knew each other for seven days or something. And then they got married. And my dad went home and packed up all the stuff, moved west and was like, I'm marrying this girl out west.

And no one thought it would work, and it did. They proceeded to backpack and mountaineer all over the North Gascades and Olympic Mountains. And then they decided to have a family, and so I was born in 1983.

And then Jenny, my sister, was born in 1984. And as soon as we were old enough, we were going backpacking, hiking, all these trips all over the west. And that became our go-to summer thing, to go hiking or backpacking.

I remember a two-week backpacking trip in Wyoming when I was 11 years old. And that was kind of my formulative trip, where I was like, oh, the west, this is where I want to be, these mountains. And my dad took me up Overhanging Tower that trip, which is like a 5.2, and we had roped up and I was like, I'm rock climbing, this is awesome.

And so I think I caught the bug on that trip. And then I guess fast forward all the way to university, that's when I got into technical rock climbing on my own because all of our stuff as a family was more mountaineering and backpacking. And in university, I joined the Alpine Club and we did some anchors workshops, lead climbing workshops, and I caught the technical climbing bug there.

And then combine that with my love for the mountains and did a lot of alpine stuff and mountaineering with a rope and climbing in the North Cascades. That's kind of where it all started off for me from where I started to report things. I started a website at that point.

That was 2006 and posted a report for Mount Rainier. That was my first trip report, which is more just like a photo spread of what we did. Hey, parents, here's what I do with my friends kind of thing.

And that's what it was for me is just sharing with my family and friends. And then I realized that just people I didn't know, the public was starting to look at my reports and photos and at that point, there was a blog kind of thing. So there were comments and people were asking questions and commenting on my beta and my route line I'd drawn on Mount Rainier. And yeah, from there, I just was like, well, this is kind of cool. I can report on what I do and share it with people.

And that was the start of documenting routes, Mount Rainier. And then from there, I just added Mount Shuckson next. And then all of a sudden, there were a hundred different trip reports on the website.

And I had to rebuild my website into a bigger platform at the time. And I guess now it's exploded into, you know, even more trip reports, route overlays, beta from all over the West and it’s become sort of popular, I suppose. A lot of climbers use it and the information on it. And that's kind of cool.

One other thing to add is like my career during this time, since I certainly don't make any money off of the climbing stuff. I was a teacher. I was a math teacher for a while. I taught calculus at Western Washington in Bellingham for six years. Then I moved to Colorado to get my PhD in Applied Math.

And long story short, I ended up with another master's degree and I ended up working as a data analyst for a company in Boulder. Now I'm based in Colorado and have a home in Estes Park.

Cat: Talking about your students reminded me, I found this route on Mountain Project called the Steph Abegg Memorial Route, aka Tangent Traverse. And I was like, oh my God, wait, what is this? And then I realized that one of your students put it up.

Steph: There's some comments, I think, I don't know if they've been deleted or not about it. Oh, she's still alive.

Cat: Yeah, the comments are still there. Well, that's cool that your students obviously know what you're up to outside of school. Have you mentored some of them not only in math, but into the climbing world?

Steph: I had a few. Yeah, I've actually had a few that I got into climbing. Not that I pushed them into it, but I also tutored on the side and I still do.

And I think it's more my students that I tutor. It's like almost every single one of them has got the climbing bug now. I don't know.

Cat: Oh, that's cool.

Steph: For better or for worse. But I've had a couple of students that we just talk about their stuff during the tutoring sessions and they find out I climb, and they're really curious about it. And then next thing I know, they're buying quickdraws and trying it out.

Cat: I love that. So far from our conversation, the biggest thing that I've gathered is climbing is really woven into every aspect of your life. And I wondered if you could just talk a little more about climbing's importance in your life and maybe life decisions that you have made around it.

Steph: I seem to structure my life around it. I became a teacher because I wanted summers off to rock climb. Although I also loved teaching and I love math and sharing that.

So, I think that also goes hand in hand with my website a platform to share information and it's similar to teaching. It's just an outlet for that. And then I moved to Colorado and part of the reason for that move was I wanted to base myself in an area with a lot of good outdoor stuff, you know, climbing being part of it.

And so I think, you know, my friends circles are kind of built around climbing partnerships.

Cat: And what style of climbing do you like the most?

Steph: Oh, boy. I think I like multi-pitch rock climbs the most, where you're just going up there with your rock gear and doing a multi-pitch car to car sort of thing, like say The Diamond car to car in a day. That's kind of climbing.

I think I love that kind of day the most. Something adventurous, I think. I'm always on the search for beta and where there isn't beta, or in trying to document something where there isn't good documentation and something adventurous usually lends itself to that.

Cat: Yeah. I mean, I think I could have guessed that. I look to your website for beta on those types of climbs. That really seems to be your passion and your sweet spot is giving detailed beta on backcountry alpine climbs that might have a complicated descent or might have hard route finding.

Steph: Thank you. I mean, if I hear from a friend that a descent is hard to find or a route is very convoluted, I'm like, I'm putting that on my list because I like to find the information and photos and stuff. Yeah.

Jeannie: I kind of wondered, Steph, if this whole project was just something for you and just your passion for sharing it and collecting data and kind of disseminating that in a really helpful way. Or, I mean, what I'm hearing here is you actually really go after things that you want, that you feel like people need to know that are obscure. And I love that part of it because I haven't used your website much, but it does have a lot of routes I like and some I've done and some I haven't.

And to hear that, it's such a different take on it, that you would go after sort of a climb or a descent or some adventure because it hasn't been documented and you want to share that. I have two questions for you. One is, I've been hanging out with people putting up routes on the Sierra, and it's really hearing interesting people's perspectives on that.

There's the perspective that Mountain Project is helpful, but can often present a real quandary of feedback that isn't always positive or helpful to people. So there's some folks putting up routes who don't even want to share it. I would love to hear your feedback, the feedback you've been getting and how you feel about that and how you...

You know, you put yourself out there on the site, your whole family, your upbringing, your life, and then you share all this amazing data. Are you able to separate any kind of negative feedback or do you feel like most of it is actually, you know, it's good and you don't worry about it? I'd love to hear your take on that.

I think in today's world of, I mean, there's tons of data out there. Not even on the Project, not all of it is super helpful or accurate. And people tend to comment a lot.

Steph: I've escaped a lot of that because my website is built more in the words like trip reports, rather than Mountain Project being like, here's the route description. This is it. This is what you do.

And then if you feel like you're misled, you feel like maybe Mountain Project misled you. But because mine are trip reports, hey, this is my experience. I feel like I don't get any real negative feedback on misleading people, which is nice.

Yeah, I would hate to think of misleading people, but, you know, routes change.

Jeannie: And you can't be perfect with information.

Steph: Right, like you can go different ways. There are multiple ways to go at some times. And weather, conditions, partners, everything changes.

So yeah, I feel like the feedback I've gotten has been, for the most part, just really positive. And it's great to hear that climbers find it as a useful resource.

Jeannie: And do you keep it to that rather than sharing and interacting on Mountain Project? Is it just you can control that data and what comes out?

Steph: Yeah, I mean, I've gotten into the habit of posting an overlay on Mountain Project. And I usually keep out of the comments. It's just not my style to be in the forums and in comments.

Maybe on a rare occasion, I'll make a comment if I found a big, loose block on a route. That might be something that's handy for the next climbers to know or just some real crucial piece of information. I might add a comment, but I think I tend to just post an overlay.

And most people at this point, if they see an overlay of mine, might realize that there's more, more beta on my website if they wish to find it.

Cat: I really appreciate that your trip reports are super objective and you don't really insert yourself a whole lot. So many trip reports and even just lengthy comments on Mountain Project feel like a bit of beta spraying with a splash of ego and a chance for people to just insinuate how hard they climb or how little gear they place.

And I think I've been drawn to your beta time and time again, because it feels really safe to me. It feels like you have no interest in sandbagging people for the benefit of your ego, but rather you just want to share the data that is going to help other people succeed in the mountains and stay safe.

I'm curious if early on when you started the project of your website, if you saw anybody else doing this kind of work that you wanted to emulate.

Steph: No, I mean, I didn't as far as I know, at least maybe subconsciously I did, but I just started off as like documenting the experience so I could share with family and friends. But more about the route rather than about Steph goes climbing, more about that this route exists and here's how you get up it. You can do it too, kind of thing.

And I've always seen it as hopefully that my trip reports can stand the test of time a bit more, like they're more objective about this is the route, this is what you do. I guess I don't like photos of myself per se, so I tend to keep myself as much out of it as possible.

Cat: Yeah, I've hardly seen any in your trip reports.

Steph: Yeah, unless my partner takes a photo and sends it to me on occasion, I'll add some partner photos.

Cat: Can you talk about your experience specifically as a woman in the climbing information sharing space?

Steph: On occasion, people will think I'm a male. I'll get emails that are, I sense they think I'm a guy or I'll show up to a random Mountain Project partner meet up and get that blank stare and that resetting of expectations of who I am. That's been a while since that's happened because I weed out my random partners a bit more, and I'm a bit more known at this point. But that’s certainly happened, especially early on, that people just assumed that climbers were guys.

Jeannie: Or maybe that someone who's as smart as you are with data and mathematics would be a guy, which is even sadder.

Steph: But yeah, it doesn't bother me the slightest, really. It's maybe an awkward moment, but.

Cat: Wait, I want to go back to the meeting up with rando's from Mountain Project. I'm so curious to hear how that goes for you and if you still do that.

Steph: Yeah, I did that this week.

Cat: That's awesome.

Steph: I do appreciate having a partner that I've climbed with for years and we talk about future trips and we do those together. And that's great. I love the constant partner that's a friend as well.

But it's fun sometimes to just go into a new area and you don't have a partner, you know, the schedules don't line up and you just look on Mountain Project for someone in the area or you post yourself. And I've had 99% great experiences from that.

Cat: I do think that's really cool because I think it speaks a lot to your confidence going into the backcountry and to the Alpine, especially with someone that you don't know. You don't know their skill set or their experience with rescue systems. And you really have to know that you have your own stuff dialed if the shit hits the fan.

Have you ever had it backfire?

Steph: I've certainly had some near misses. You can learn to read them sometimes in what they say to you, and sometimes not. In general, I mean, people on Mountain Project are usually pretty honest on what they can do.

If you're looking at a bigger route, generally, they show up ready for that. And you can gauge by the conversation you might have before meeting up that things are going to go well. So it's a mystery of who is this person? And what's it going to be like? And let's just solve this climbing puzzle together. And I don't know, I like it.

Cat: I love that. It's inspiring to me to give more people a chance and go climbing with some randos and meet new people.

Steph: I'm also incredibly socially awkward. And I think it's kind of like my one way to meet people that is you can meet the person and spend the day with them just because you've made a plan and you have an objective.

Cat: I love that. I think a lot of us climbers can be socially awkward or hyper focused or whatever you want to call it. And meeting up with other climbers, it's like, ahh, I’m with one of my tribe, I'm with people who understand me.

Jeannie: You spent a lot of time in the mountains in the last 20-25 years. What's your take on the amount of women in the mountains today and level of competence? I mean, do you feel like there's more of an equitable kind of feeling out there, and both in number and ability?

And I mean, especially if you're getting on the Project, looking for partners, I know it always feels to me like it's easier to find guys than to find women.

Steph: I mean, it is easier to find guys than to find women, but the women I found are incredibly solid. And I feel like there's just a lot of really solid women out there in the mountains and in sport climbing.

I'm at Rifle right now. I've been climbing at Rifle, Colorado for the last two weeks. And it's just amazing at how many women are crushing it at the 5.13 level. I mean, just as many as the men, it seems.

Jeannie: Yeah. Do you find that in the mountains when you get out in the alpine realm? I think that the sport climbing realm feels really equal or close.

Steph: The mountains, it's probably more male dominated in general, but the women out there are usually pretty solid. So I have a lot of female climbing partners that I'll go off and do some big mountain adventure with. And it's great.

I feel like at least my women partners, we don't complain. It's all just fun and there's just no complaining, no egos. It's just kind of fun.

I did a traverse last year with my sister and friend, the LA Freeway in Colorado, which goes from Longs Peak to South Arapahoe. And we did it together as a team of three women. And it was just, it was so fun.

And that's kind of a grueling thing. You're, you're tired. You're, you're facing a lot of rugged terrain.

You're running out of food and water and sleep. And there was no complaining going on. It was just, it was pure fun.

Jeannie: I would be curious of your connection to wilderness and in all of these years with your climbing. How important is that to you? And have you had some really kind of transformative experience in wilderness? In and around climbing, of course, it sounds like that's most of the time. But obviously, when you were young, you probably went on a ton of hiking trips. I know you also took a big fall.

And I also wondered, if you felt comfortable, talking about sort of how that affected your psyche and both your connection to climbing and wilderness.

Steph: I guess for me, those are like two different things.

Jeannie: Yeah, you can start with the first.

Steph: The wilderness thing, like, I just... A day in the mountains to me is just so therapeutic. It's the most mentally relaxing thing I think I can do.

And that it doesn't need to be climbing. I just love being in the mountains doing a big hike or a traverse. Probably just as much as I love climbing, I love just hiking.

And solo hiking is kind of... It's great. I either put an audiobook in or some music or nothing at all and just enjoy the scenery and the photography.

And there's nothing more therapeutic to me than that. And I can't imagine not having that in my life. And so I guess that gets to the injury thing.

So in 2010, I took my sister on her first alpine climb. And it was the north face of Vesper Peak in the North Cascades. And we're halfway up this climb and I pull off a giant rock.

And I was on lead and the rock pretty much knocked off my ankle in a sense. It was a compound fracture, open fracture, severed arteries, severed nerves, that kind of stuff. So just a horrible accident to be having up on some north face of a mountain in the North Cascades.

And with my sister, Jenny, who had just never really alpine climbed before. We both kicked in the gear, kind of splinted it with an ice axe, tourniquet it with a sling and carabiner, made sure I had a safe place, a ledge to sit on. And then Jenny goes and takes all the gear and the rope, gets herself down to the glacier, which involved several rappels up in trees, blocks, what not.

And she's pretty thrifty. So she was trying to leave as little gear as possible. So I think she left one cam and then repelled like five times.

And she got down the glacier and then ran up to the summit by the descent route and got a phone call out. And the helicopter came in about five or six hours later and got me off that mountain before it got dark and got to the hospital. And it was still very touch and go for my leg for a while there.

Amputation was definitely a real thought. That first night, but they were able to reconstruct the arteries and get the blood flow back into the leg and put some hardware in there to get the bones back together. And that ended up being a quite extensive recovery.

There was nerve damage and a lot that prevented me from being able to move it and walk for quite some time. I think it was about two years before I was walking mostly normally and even now, I have a bit of a limp, but I don't think about it. But the first thought in my mind right after Jenny left me on that mountain was, okay, this sucks.

How long is it going to be until I can get back on the rock and climb again? This is a bummer. I'm never going to be able to climb, but it was just this, I've got to get back into the mountains.

I've got to get back to climbing, running, whatever I want to do. And that was just the driving motivation the entire time was to get back into it. Because I couldn't imagine not having that outdoors in my life in some way.

Jeannie: Yeah, you didn't deter her either, even though it was her first time. It's kind of amazing that she says, she's about as enthusiastic as you are.

Steph: Have you interviewed Jenny?

Jeannie: We haven't interviewed her. No, I've been trying to get her to write a story for a couple of years now.

Steph: Yeah, Jenny has become a fantastic climber and influencer in a way in the realm.

Jeannie: Yeah. Yeah, no, I know your sister and I've hung out with her. And she's so busy writing for her work that she's like, I don't know if I can sit down and write something for myself, for you guys.

Steph: I was excited. It was like it gave her this confidence boost. Okay, if we can get through this, we can get through it.

Jeannie: Yeah, which I love, because a lot of people get scared off after incidents like that to never want to go back in the mountains or to climb again. And I think it's super inspiring to meet you and to learn all that you've been through. And obviously you're super methodical and thoughtful.

And, you know, I'm sure went through a lot to get yourself to feel confident again and get the skills and everything else.

Steph: But I struggle. I struggle sport climbing, just sometimes facing a two foot fall above a bolt.

Cat: Yeah. What is your relationship to fear in climbing now? Fifteen years after that accident.

Steph: Oh, it's been a struggle with fear and falling ever since that accident. And it took me a while to even get back into lead climbing. Easy stuff.

And I'd say it wasn't until like quite recently in the last year or so where I've started to lead 5.11 again. I've had a partner, a pretty consistent partner for the last six months, who's just really been supportive and pushed me into leading again, you know, taking those falls. And especially through sport climbing you can do that a bit safer. And then, yes, I've been leading a lot more. And that's really been that I've pushed the grade a bit more in the last couple of years.

I've been hovering in the 5.9-5.10 lead level for years, which there's a lot of fun alpine routes in that zone. And I could follow anything, but it's nice to be on the sharp end again on harder stuff.

Cat: Yeah, I think a lot of my sense of accomplishment in the mountains comes from leading or swinging leads on a route. And if I follow all of a route or all of the harder pitches, it can take away from the experience for me. And I'm curious if you have felt that way when you were following harder pitches or what that experience has been like for you.

Steph: I think it was part of the process for me, but it is true that now when I lead, maybe I lead the entire route and we just do like, you know, fix and follow the whole route and I'm in the lead. It's like such an amazing experience to get to the top and realize that, hey, I led that. I didn't follow that whole thing.

So that's been pretty cool. And I do get a lot more satisfaction over it. But I think a lot of the stuff I did do over the years has been within my lead comfort level.

I've done a lot of traverses to where it is just not too much rock climbing, more scrambling, and maybe some rope stuff. And that's all kind of my comfort zone. So I've owned those in a way.

But yeah, it is nice to lead.

Cat: Yeah. I wonder if you can articulate what you've gotten from that person in the last six months that helped you turn a corner in terms of the type of support that they've offered to you, and what that looks like, and how that kind of support has helped you get off of your plateau.

Steph: Right. That's a great question. I think just that there's that constant support.

If you can do it, like you're strong enough, you can do it. You are safe. I am watching you at every single move.

You can fall anytime you want, and I'm here to catch you. Like just that knowledge that they're always, you're safe and being told that on the harder stuff. I mean, this is sport climbing that I'm talking about, and then just taking it into the multi-pitch objectives.

I guess that support, it takes a certain special person to give the right level of support and not to push you too far or to maybe discourage you and say, hey, no, you can't do it. I'll take this pitch. Like, I've had that before, and I've easily been able to give over the pitch.

Yeah, I'm scared. You take it. But, yeah, this partner hasn't always done that when it's safe enough.

He's like, no, you should go for it. And I don't know, it's just, it's been a good partnership that has allowed me to flourish a bit more.

Cat: What about you, Jeannie? Do you have people that support you in a way that helps you go for it?

Jeannie: For sure. I had someone yesterday who I was in the mountains with, and it was a pitch I didn't think I could get. And she was like, no, this is your style.

You got this. You can do this. And I have another friend recently I've been climbing with a little more.

And just his energy is such that I feel like no pressure, no, you know, you should lead this. It's like, do you want to lead this? And just a sense of confidence in me that I probably don't have in myself.

And I think that's the most helpful. Climbing with boyfriends is always tricky if they're or your husband, if they're pressuring you, they mean it in a good way. But I think it's really hard because if you're just not in that space, they don't see that, they don't feel that, they don't have your hormones, you know, raging through them.

They can't really always intuitively read that in their minds, what they're trying to do is support you to get you to be psyched to lead something. But I feel I've had that in different partners where it's like, no, no, no, this isn't, it makes you back off more, you know, I think it's like anything. It's like when I see, I don't have kids, but when I see my siblings raising kids, it's like the more you just trust them and the less you say, the more confidence they have in themselves in some ways.

I think that in a climbing partner is really unique, especially in the mountains. I'm sure Steph, you felt this, but your sister Jenny's good friend Lorna is a really good friend of mine, and I've done a lot of climbing with her. Finding partners where you just sense that they're okay if you want to back off, and they're also right there to encourage you if they feel that you should be encouraged.

And that takes sometimes time, sometimes not, but just more of an intuitive sense of who we are, I guess. And sometimes less is more in terms of building my confidence. Off that subject, Steph, I was wondering, clearly you're super– I say this in a healthy way–obsessed with climbing, I feel the same.

I think it's pretty probably similar in what we all get out of it, Cat included, and why we do it. And it's so holistic in our lives and soul enriching. But I wonder since you've put yourself out there with the website and also just various partners you don't know, and I've read a little bit on your site about your family.

Do you ever get the sense or even people saying or talking about, like, what a selfish endeavor? We're so selfish as climbers. I sometimes want to get into this just because I feel really curious what others who put their lives into climbing and aren't necessarily professional, because you're not a paid professional climber.

How do you feel about that if you've ever encountered that and and or just how you see climbing in the realm of passions in the world and so much of your time being put into it?

Steph: Right. That was a good point. Sometimes I do see climbing, my own climbing as being just going off and having fun and fulfilling my own dreams.

And this is kind of selfish, but we all have to have our own enjoyment and passions in life. And so I do not see it as a selfish endeavor. It's just a passion in life.

And it's a great way to stay healthy, to meet cool people from all over the world and to see awesome places from all over the world. Like it really can take you places and give you so many life experiences. And so it's just a great platform to experience life from.

And in that way, I don't see it as a selfish endeavor. It's just a great life experience. I find a lot of satisfaction in documenting and sharing.

And I wonder if I didn't do that, if I would climb as much or like climbing as much, like feel the obsession over it, if I couldn't document and share it. And sometimes when my camera breaks on a route, all of a sudden I've lost my mojo in a way. I'm just like, I can't take a photo.

I feel lost. I don't know what to do. I'm going to have to, I don't know, make a stick figure drawing of this pitch or something.

I'm already thinking of how am I going to spin this trip report without photos.

Jeannie: That's funny. This is a bit of a segue, but you grew up Christian, right?

Steph: Yeah.

Jeannie: And it sounds like your dad is a biblical scholar?

Steph: Yeah.

Jeannie: Was there ever any pressure from them on when are you going to be done with that sort of superfluous thing and have kids, have a family, settle down? I grew up Catholic, I'm still recovering, so this is where that's coming from. But you know, that outside pressure: climbing, that's great. You enjoy it. It obviously gives you joy. But are you going to keep doing that forever?

Steph: Oh, there's been nothing of that sort from my parents.

Jeannie: That's wonderful.

They had the obsession or the bug or whatever you might want to call it. They had it as well, just as bad as Jenny and I do. They love reading my trip reports and keeping in the loop of what I'm doing.

Jenny and them, they live a little closer than I do. I live in Colorado and Jenny lives in Leavenworth and they live in Chilliwack, BC. So Jenny and them go hiking sometimes.

And yeah, it's part of our family and there's absolutely no pressure to stop doing it. It's just like, okay, how can you orchestrate a career around it and make a living in some way and then have this as a hobby or for Jenny's case, partially her job.

Jeannie: Right. Are they up for adopting others? That's such a healthy, sounds like such a healthy environment growing up. And just that you get to share these amazing aspects of your life that, I mean, obviously envelop your life and that they love it.

Steph: So great. Yeah. It's been really a bonding part of our family.

We actually went to Joshua Tree this last Christmas as a family vacation and rented or got an Airbnb for a week. Jenny and I climbed together and my parents hiked, and then we'd hang out in the evening. So we found a way to use climbing as well, to keep our family in the same place during holidays.

Cat: Steph, can you talk a little bit more about your career outside of climbing and your attraction to academia?

Steph: Well, I'd say my career path has been anything but linear, and it's still a work in progress since I'm currently unemployed and looking for a job. But I started off in academia. I was a teacher at Western Washington University.

I taught calculus and differential equations and pre-calc and algebra, kind of the whole realm of things. And I loved it. I loved sharing my math knowledge and interacting with students.

And then of course you get this nice three-month summer, which plays well with climbing. And that was great. And I planned to, that was kind of like my life goal was to become a professor and do that for my job for life.

My dad was a professor and I liked the lifestyle and just, that learning environment is kind of a place that I'd love to be. I did go to Colorado to get my PhD. And one thing led to another and I didn't get it unfortunately, or fortunately, who knows?

Like you just don't know where your life path takes you if you make certain decisions. But I took a job as a data analyst and I love that job too. So there's more than one path to go on.

And I worked there for a couple of years. We monitored time series data for methane gas emissions. Then I went to take a boot camp in coding and data analytics.

And with the current federal cuts and regulations, getting back into the job market has been a little bit more tricky than I thought it would be. So currently I am unemployed, but I would say that currently I would call myself a data analyst or data scientist. And the great thing about that as a climber, I suppose, is that it can be remote.

And so I do love being able to work remotely, which I can do in various locations and then climb on the weekends or in the afternoons or whatever works with the job. But you can be there. And so you can go to Indian Creek for a weekend because you can work remotely during the week.

My sister Jenny works remotely and she's found that that's just a good way to build a job and climbing into your life.

Cat: Changing the subject back to climbing, can you tell us what it means to you to climb an alpine route in good style?

Steph: Good question. It means being efficient, not making route finding errors, having fun with your partner, and kind of being able to plan. So for an alpine route, there's just a lot of planning and logistics that often go into something like that.

And you can kind of plan out your ideal day. And we're going to approach, it's going to take us this long, we're going to get on this route, we're going to get up in this much time, we're going to do this descent, and our rope is not going to get stuck. And so like all that, if all that goes to plan, then you've done it in good form.

But even if it doesn't go to plan, you get a rope stuck or there's another party on your route, and you have to make a route swap decision. Like it's just a matter of rolling with the punches as they come, making the right decision at the time, and as long as you stay safe and everyone has fun, and hopefully get to the top of your objective, then to me that's a successful day.

Jeannie: Do you think, Steph, do you think AI is going to change anything in terms of how you see and we all see as climbers where data is going. Is it going to affect how you do your website in the near future or how we get information, or are we all just going to sit home and watch hologram or whatever? We're not going to have to go climbing anymore because we can just do it virtually.

Steph: Well, I think AI helps organize data and be able to maybe rework some of the old-fashioned ways that climbing information might be displayed. Mountain Project, I'm sure, is reworking their site a bit because I think it just changed hands. I'm sure they're using AI tools. They've got massive amounts of data, so it's got to be able to do stuff with that and just make it easier for them to organize it and display it.

But I'm not sure AI can do much for helping a climber become a better climber, being prepared for your climb and that involves just being fit enough, being aware of what you're doing, being aware of all the beta involved in your route, that kind of stuff.

Jeannie: Yeah, I feel like it could be a Catch-22 where there's more beta and it's more visual. I mean, so quickly, you could probably go into a route and get the whole visual of the ascent, the descent, the kit that you need. And almost to the point where someone who's new runs out there without having done what you just described, which is a little more homework, a little more intimate work to figure out what's needed.

But it could be the flip side too. It could just open up doors for all of us because there'll be more information out there.

Steph: Imagine an app that's just like: start route. And I know every single move, every single belay here. Number one cam, the size stopper.

Jeannie: This is the sadness of having internet even in the mountains now with Starlink. It's great when we can do a Zoom call, but I just love leaving it all behind, right?

Steph: Yeah. I think in general for a more adventurous kind of route, that would backfire. Nothing ever goes exactly as planned on those kinds of things.

And that's probably the fun of it is knowing that, okay, we're going to have to actually make some decisions with our own brains. And you got to be prepared for that.

Jeannie: You got to be able to think on the fly when things happen like your accident. I mean, that was really impressive. You too got yourselves out of that situation.

And I'm really glad that you're climbing hard again and your foot is feeling whole and it didn't deter your passion, which is really inspiring.

Steph: Yeah, thank you.

Cat: Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story. And we look forward to sharing it with our audience.

Jeannie: Thanks, Steph.

Steph: Thank you for the interview and I look forward to listening to more of what you guys have as well.

Cat: Thanks for listening to The Broad Beta Podcast. If you have questions, suggestions, feedback, please don't hesitate to contact us at admin@broadbeta.com. And check out our website for articles, gear reviews, and beautiful photos at broadbeta.com.

Intro music in today's episode is by Holizna Radio. And conclusion music in the background right now is by Ketsa, called The Road To. Both of these songs were sourced from freemusicarchive.org.